2008 World Series - Lowest TV Rated Ever

I don't even think MLB expected this year's World Series to be the lowest ever rated on TV! Most of the articles I read said they expected the ratings to average around 10.5.

According to Awful Announcing, the final TV rating will be around 9.5 which is .5 less than the lowest rated ever. The 2006 World Series received a 10.0.

Wednesday night's game 5 version 2.o received a 13.5 TV rating. Did baseball learn anything about having games completed before 11:30 EDT?

I should clarify why I'm posting this data. It's not to say, "see, I told you it would be bad." I'm trying to make a point that baseball games needed to be started earlier so more people can watch. When the greatest team story in baseball (Tampa's worst-to-first turnaround) can't capture the nation's attention, then something must be done.

Jennie Finch - You Little Trouble Maker!

The USA Today reports that China's government created a list of US athletes (and one coach) that could cause some turmoil at the Olympic Games.

Softball players Jennie Finch and Jessica Mendoza were on the Chinese Top 9 List.

Jennie Finch will be signing autographs at the 37th Annual Chicago Sun-Times Show next month. I plan on going, but probably not getting Jennie Finch's autograph.

Phillies World Series Memorabilia

My advice to Phillies Phans - save the memories by getting today's paper!

Collecting the day's newspaper from the home city is the perfect way to remember the moment. You can get them signed our just mounted for wall hanging. Keep them out of the sunlight - newspapers fade extremely fast.

Here's a link to ordering Phillies World Series Newspapers.
http://gallery.pictopia.com/philly/gallery/62706/

Daniel Murphy NY Mets Blogging in the Fall

NY Mets prospect, Daniel Murphy is dipping his toe in the blogosphere. Murphy is learning second base in the Arizona Fall League and did a guest blog entry.

Playing second base instead of the outfield? Yes - Luis Castillo are you reading this?

D-Murph was a real gamer for the Mets this summer. He provided a huge spark for the Mets and helped keep them in the race.

Thanks to Amazin' Stories for posting the information.

Mookie Wilson NY Mets and Who?

Getting ready for MAB Amazing MetsFest next weekend I decided to go through some old photos. I found a ton that were gifts from my in-laws. They found this photo and a ton of other candid photos at a flea market last spring.

Who is this person with Mookie Wilson? Is it Preston Wilson? I have no idea! Any help out there?

On the back of the photo is written "June 1983."

Greg Oden Rookie Debut - One Year Late

- This was posted on the Cardboard Connection Blog -

It took a year, but Greg Oden will make his rookie debut this week when the Portland Trailblazer's season tips off. Oden was the first pick in the 2007 draft, but suffered a knee injury the following summer.

Without Oden, the Trailblazers managed to reach 41 - 41, but missed the playoffs for the fifth straight year.

The last time a rookie waited this long with this much potential was David Robinson. "The Admiral" brought a San Antonio team back to respectability and eventually helped turned them into NBA champions. David Robinson took the Spurs from 21-61 the year before he arrived to 56-26 the following season (an NBA record turnaround at the time).

Is Greg Oden the next David Robinson? That's probably not a fair comparison, but Trailblazer fans are hoping. Oden's rookie card prices are still pretty fair. Take a look at his cards before the season is in full swing. If Portland can finish at .500 without Oden, where will they finish with him?

Which Lame Duck Will Jim Mora Jr. Replace?

Mora has already been tapped to replace the retiring Mike Holmgren after this season, but now the Univ. of Washington job will have an opening after the season. Ty Willingham announced that he will step down when the Huskies finish their last game.

Remember, Mora put his foot in his mouth a few years ago by when he was a head coach at Atlanta by saying that he'd love to go back to Washington.

Where would Jim Mora Jr. have a better chance at winning?

• In Seattle, he's going to inherit an old team. Hasselback's best days are behind him, there isn't a number one receiver, and the running backs seem to be a group of cast-offs from other teams. But in today's NFL, you have a pretty good chance to turn things around from one year to the next.


• It would be a home-coming if he went back to Washington. Mora played defensive back, was with the team for two Rose Bowl appearances, and began his coaching career at Washington. Jim Mora Sr. was also a coach for the University of Washington before moving to the pro ranks.

If I'm Jim Mora Jr., I'd go to the University of Washington. He'd get a long-term contract, he knows the area for recruiting, and he gets a shot at the Rose Bowl every year.

Game 4 World Series Down 25%

What goes down faster than world series TV ratings? (insert Paris Hilton joke)

Game 4 of the World Series had TV ratings down 25% compared to last year's ratings. Sunday night received a 10.7 rating.

Through four games the series is averaging an 8.5. The lowest TV ratings ever for a World Series is a 10.0.

Dave @ Fielder's Choice - I wish you were right on this and there would be more viewers, but...

Larry Anderson Philies World Series Veteran

When you think "Phillies World Series Veteran," Larry Anderson probably isn't the first person you think of. You probably remember Mike Schmidt, Pete Rose, Tug McGraw and other players who were on the 1980 World Series Championship and the 1983 National League Championship teams.

However, Larry Anderson is the only player who was a member of the 1983 and 1993 National League Championship teams. Anderson pitched well in his 2 appearances in the 1983 World Series, but was hit hard in the 1993 World Series giving up 4 earned runs in 2.1 innings.

Of course Anderson may be most known for as the player that brought Jeff Bagwell to the Houston Astros. On August 30, 1990 the Houston Astros traded Anderson to the Boston Red Sox for a minor league player named Jeff Bagwell. Bagwell went on to play 15 seasons, slug 449 home runs and become a Houston legend. Anderson went on to lose game 1 of the 1990 ALCS against the Oakland A's and left that winter via Free Agency.

I know Anderson did some work last year in Philly as a radio color commentator, but I'm unsure if he's still in that role.

World Series Game 3 TV Ratings - Lowest Ever

A 91 minute rain-delay for Game 3 of the World Series didn't help an already terrible World Series TV ratings.

Game 3 between the Phightin' Phils and Tampa Rays earned a 6.1 TV rating. Ouch. This shatters the previous low (8.0 in 2006). Source - Yahoo Sports

Through 3 games (game 4 numbers haven't been released yet) the World Series TV rating is averaging a 7.7 which is 23 percent lower than last year.

I think the Cubs 1908 World Series win drew more TV viewers than this one!

World Series Game 2 Ratings Down 26.4%

The only thing falling faster than the World Series TV ratings is the Dow Jones Industrial Average!

Game 2 of the World Series is down 26.4% from Game 2 of the World Series last year. FOX received a low 9.2 rating last night. It was the second lowest World Series game ever.

Hopefully the World Series goes 6 or 7 games and draws some interest as it progresses.

Thanks to Awful Announcing Blog for posting the numbers.

Owning a Piece of Shea Stadium

I own a piece of Shea Stadium now!

As if the Shea Stadium memories haven't cost me enough in therapy bills the past two Septembers, I bought a brick from the soon-to-be demolished Mets home in Flushing, NY.

I received my outfield wall brick from the MeiGray Group this week. The brick comes with a COA from MeiGray and an MLB hologram.

World Series Game 1 Ratings Down 12.7%

Game 1 of the World Series between the Phighting Phils and Tampa Bay Rays are DOWN 12.7% compared to last year's game 1 of the World Series.

Wednesday night scored a 10.3 rating compared to last year's 11.8 rating. We need a long series and some in-game drama to capture baseball viewers.

Dave @ Fielder's Choice Blog - I hope this picks up as the series moves along.

Thanks to Awful Announcing Blog for posting the numbers.

Remembering the 1988 World Series Game 1

Twenty years ago, Roy Hobbs jumped from the big screen to our living room TV screens.

Instead of watching the stadium lights explode and cascade around the NY Knights, baseball fans witnessed an injured star get mobbed at home plate after hobbling his way around the bases. The winning team's jersey said "Dodgers" instead of "Knights," manager Pop Fisher was replaced by Tommy Lasorda and Roy Hobbs was brought to life by Kirk Gibson.

During the NLCS against the NY Mets, the Dodgers' Kirk Gibson aggravated his previous leg injuries which kept him out of the starting line-up. Instead of facing Oakland A’s ace Dave Stewart during the first game of the World Series, Gibson was taking his cuts off of a hitting tee with the help of LA's starting pitcher, Orel Hershiser.

In the bottom of the 9th inning of Game 1, with 2 outs, Tommy Lasorda made the 2nd biggest surprise of the night; the biggest surprise had yet to come. Lasorda called for Kirk Gibson to rise from the bowels of Chavez Ravine and become "The Natural."

Kirk Gibson would have to face the best closing pitcher in Major League Baseball, Dennis Eckersley. It seemed this storybook ending would have the same sad finish as the book version of the "The Natural,” ending with a strike-out. But the big screen version began to show life when Gibson, without a good leg to stand on, fouled off pitch-after-pitch just trying to stay alive against the mighty "Eck."

Finally Gibson hit a back-door slider into the right field seats of Dodger Stadium. Many of us have a hard time believing how young we were when Gibson made history, but no one forgets where they were he rounded second base.

Gibson won Game 1 and his Dodger teammates carried him for 3 more World Series victories. The LA Dodgers beat the mighty Oakland Athletics to become the 1988 World Series Champions.

Remembering Game 1 of the 1988 World Series reminds us that perfect Hollywood endings don't always occur at the expense of a movie ticket. Sometimes they can happen when we least expect it, late at night, in the crisp October air that surrounds the World Series.

NY Mets Autograph Show

My trip is planned for MAB's Mets autograph show next month. All the logistics are taken care of and most of my autograph tickets are purchased.

I'm looking forward to getting Ray Knight's autograph. I haven't seen him on the autograph circuit lately. I really enjoy getting the in-person autographs at these shows.

MAB does a really nice job running their shoes. The past couple that I've attended had most of their guests on time. The only problem is the crowding at the autograph lines. I hope they have more tables set up and more space for everyone to move around.

Send me an email if you're unable to go and want an autograph. We can work out the details. And if anyone is going, let me know. We can meet up at the show.

Phillies - Rays 2008 World Series - Will Anyone Watch?

Will anyone watch the 2008 World Series between the Phillies and Rays? I hope so, but it doesn't look promising.

The Phillies have more heart than any National League team the past two seasons. Their September and October runs are inspiring. The Rays are the most exciting team in baseball this year, have a ton of young talent, and have a great worst-to-first story to tell. It's going to be a great World Series and a World Series that could draw in more fans if the games weren't ending at 11:30pm ET.

But it's not looking good from a TV ratings standpoint. Maybe Obama will get a discounted rate for his scheduled Game 6, thirty minute Billy Mays-esque infomercial.

Here are a couple of links that talked about the Phillies/Rays match-up for TV viewers.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2008/10/16/2008-10-16_a_classic_case_of_low_ratings_for_baseba.html

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2538:fox-execs-prepare-for-the-worst-in-possible-philliesrays-world-series&catid=29:articles-a-opinion&Itemid=41

http://blog.macleans.ca/2008/10/15/networks-beware-the-world-series/

William The Refrigerator Perry Cancels Again

Is William "The Refrigerator" Perry in poor health? For the second time in the last few months he's canceled an appearance at an autograph show.

He was scheduled to appear at the Land of Boz Superstar Sports Signing Oct. 19 in Canton, OH. A make-up date has not been added to the site. During the summer he canceled for an appearance at CincyCardShows in Cincinnati, OH.

I hate to see the last minute cancellations. Hopefully the Fridge is OK. I'm ready for some more William Perry GI Joe figures!

Should You Remove Stains from Trading Cards?

Gone with the Stain - Cleaning Baseball Cards

Is it unethical to get a stain removed from a trading card for resale? What if the grading companies can't detect it the chemicals that are used to remove a stain?

This is the sports card collector's dilemma if they get a card cleaned by "Gone with the Stain." Chris Nerat at the Gavel Chat blog had a great interview and article with the founder of "Gone with the Stain."

According to "Gone with the Stain," they remove gum stains, etc from cards without being detected by the major card grading companies. They say the chemicals they use remove the stain only, do not make the card brittle, and do not have any odor.

I see the point that the cards shouldn't be touched or enhanced in any way especially if you are selling it. Or is it the same as washing/waxing your card before selling it to the car dealer?

Top 5 All-Time BYU Quarterbacks

On the 133 year anniversary of the founding of Brigham Young University, here are the top 5 quarterbacks in the football program's history:

5. Steve Sarkisian - 1996 Sammy Baugh Award Winner

4. Robbie Bosco - 1984 Sammy Baugh Award Winner

3. Jim McMahon - 1985 Super Bowl Champion, 3rd place in 1981 Heisman Trophy voting

2. Steve Young - NFL Hall of Famer, Super Bowl Champion, 1983 Heisman Trophy runner-up

1. Ty Detmer - 1990 Heisman Trophy Winner, 3rd place in 1991 Heisman Trophy voting

Adam PacMan Jones Suspension - Who's to Blame?

Adam Jones was suspended (again) by the NFL this afternoon for the fight he had with his bodyguard last week. Those on the scene of the altercation say Jones had been drinking which is a violation of his parole with the NFL, although police did not give him a breathalizer test and charges were not filed.

Who's to blame for Jones' suspension just 6 games into his first season with Dallas? Obviously he shouldn't have been reinstated if he can't stay clean before the half-way point of the NFL season. But who should get more of the blame?

• Do you blame Jerry Jones for trading for him and taking a chance on him? This wasn't a good move for the team.
• Do you blame NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell for allowing him back into the league? Jones wasn't ready to return to work if he can't stay away from bottle just 6 weeks into his reinstatement.
• Do you blame the NFLPA for not doing more to help Jones? Should the NFLPA have done more to help Adam, make sure he's not chemically dependent on alcohol and provide him with all the help he needs?
• Or is Adam Jones the one person to blame for his situation? Does it matter if Jones becomes diagnosed as an alcoholic? If that's a disease that he can't control, is he still to blame?

Billy Mays - As Seen on TV - Autograph Success

• 
  UPDATE: RIP Billy Mays. Sad to see him go.
  
  Yes, those are autographs from the Billy Mays that sells everything at 2am from "Mighty Putty" to "Orange Glow." No one sells products (and does the hand gestures) like Billy Mays does!

I've been a fan of Billy Mays for a while and then I read this article in the Washington Post last month.

I like Billy Mays because he's someone who rose to the top of his profession (yes, selling this stuff is a profession) by starting at the bottom. The founder of Orange Glow met him at a home show in Pittsburgh and that started the Billy Mays double-the-offer path to success.

After the Washington Post article, I sent Billy Mays the baseball (see picture) and a letter on Sept. 4, 2008. I put the baseball and the letter in a box and included the return postage. A month later, I wasn't sure if I had the right address in Florida and I lost hope that I'd see the baseball or the autograph photo I requested.

On Friday, October 10, I received the box from Billy Mays with the baseball and autographed photo. I requested that he sign the photo to Todd, a coworker of mine who still believes the Sham-Wow guy is better. Please!

Here's the long list Billy Mays products:

• Aquapel Awesome Auger, Ground Aug, Weed Auger, and Power Extender gardening tools
• Bedazzler
• Big City Slider Station
• Black Swan Furniture
• Bloomin' Onion Maker
• Buddy Putty
• Calcium Lime Rust
• Currie Motors Chrysler Credit Hotline
• Cutco Kitchenware
• Ding King automotive dent remover
• Easy Off Bam!
• Energize energy supplement
• EngraveIt
• FixIt car scratch remover
• FoneFree wireless cellphone headset
• Foodsaver
• FreeFone wireless phone holder
• Gopher reach extending tool
• Handy Switch
• Hercules Hook wall hangers
• iCan Benefit Group, LLC
• Kaboom
• Lint-B-Gone lint brush
• Liquid Diamond car waxing product
• Mantis Roto-Tiller
• Micro-Men Duster
• Mighty Mend It
• Mighty Putty
• Never-Scrub tile cleaner
• Orange Clean, Orange Glo
• OxiClean
• Quik Strip wire stripping tool
• Ragazzi's Italian Restaurant and Pizzeria
• Samurai Shark knife sharpener
• Sandstrom OnTV
• Sealtite Tire Sealant
• Simoniz Fix It Scratch Remover
• Slider Station Burger Maker
• Steam Buddy
• Street Options Auto Accessories
• Swiffer SweeperVac
• Tommy and Rumble
• Turbo Tiger vacuum cleaner
• Vidalia Chop-it
• Vidalia Slice-it
• Vidalia Slice Wizard
• Zorbeez absorbent towels

Have a Date with the 1986 Mets

MAB Celebrity Services is hosting a VIP Cocktail Dinner with the 1986 Mets. For $299 per person, you can have two Mets from the 1986 team seated at your dinner table. You get food, drink, a giftbag and the chance to bid on 25 items on auction.

With my luck, I'd get Rick Anderson and Dave Magadan at my table. I'm sure they're both very nice people... but when I think of '86 Mets, I don't think of Anderson and Magadan. Dave Magadan used to drive me nuts when I was a kid. All I heard Steve Zabriskie say on WWOR was "Magadan has hit .300 or better at every minor league level." He had a good year in 1990, but never seemed to live up to the hype. Now's he's the hitting coach for the Boston Red Sox.

Personally, I'd like to find that worm hole, go back in time 22 years, and play texas hold 'em poker with Roger McDowell, Doc Gooden, Wally Backman, and Darryl Strawberry! Now that's a poker table!

New Sponsor Ideas for the Arizona Diamondbacks Pool

Riviera Pools is filing for bankruptcy and will no longer sponsor the swimming pool just beyond the right-center fence.

Here are my ideas that Chase Field could use to sponsor the pool next year:

- Viagra: We help everyone and everything swim better

- Vivid Films: Getting people wet is what we do

- Taco Bell Volcano Taco

- Travis Henry: His boys swim anywhere & everywhere

Thanks: AZCentral.com and Baseball Think Factory

Two Things You Can't Have Enough Of

You can't have enough t-shirts and plastic cups!

OK, obviously there are more than these two things, but these are definitely two of them. Why can't you have enough t-shirts and plastic cups? Each t-shirt and plastic cup captures a moment in your life and tells a story.

(Guys - use this excuse when your wife or girlfriend or both complain about the plastic cups in the cabinet and t-shirts in the closet.)

I wear t-shirts all year and most of my t-shirts tell some kind of story. They are stories are about where I picked up the shirts and what they meant at the time. For example, I have a Pac-Bell Park t-shirt that I bought in August 2001 during the Barry Bonds home run race. I went to games there on a Tuesday and Thursday and Bonds homered on the Monday and Wednesday (of course). Willie Mays was on the field on Thursday and it was great to see a legend like him in person and on the baseball field. The t-shirt reminds me of that trip, before baseball was intoxicated in PEDs, and before our country changed a few weeks later.

Yes the souvenir cups cost more at the game, but those things last forever! I use a Cincinnati Reds souvenir cup that I bought (full of diet coke at the time) with Ken Griffey Jr on it. In 2000, I bought it at the Cincinnati Reds opening day game. It was Griffey's first game in a Reds uniform and it was a rare Cincinnati home opener that was called for rain. The Reds tied the Brewers that wet afternoon 3-3. Junior was hitless in two at bats.

Keep your dignity and don't throw out those old cups and worn t-shirts! Keep them and bore someone with the story of when you bought them!

Buy the Cowboys Endzone from Neiman Marcus

Want own a piece of Texas Stadium - or the entire endzone!?

The Winter catalog from Neiman Marcus has the Dallas Cowboys endzone package for $500,000!

Maybe Chad Johnson, aka Ocho Cinco, will buy it so he can finally have his big game there and kiss the star as he promised (and failed) during week 5.

Pete Rose and Buddy Harrelson: Fists of Fury 35 Years Later

Pete Rose may have won the fight but Buddy Harrelson won the game! Thirty-five years ago Rose and Harrleson got into a fight during Game 3 of the NLCS.

Harrelson helped turn a sweep 3-6-3 double-play on the Reds. During the play, Rose slid in hard at second base, Harrleson commented on the slide, and Pete introduced his fist to Buddy's eye. The fight is classic NLCS moment and several photos have captured great pictures of the event.

A complete recap of the fight, what was said before and after the game, and a great exchange between Buddy and Pete during a 1974 game at Riverfront Stadium can be read on the Centerfield Maz blog.

I'm going to an MAB event next month where Buddy is signing. I'm trying to find this picture unsigned so I can get Buddy and Pete to sign it.

Shea Stadium Brick Order

I didn't get the foul poles, a dugout, or any of the endorsement signs from the Shea Stadium Demolition Sale. Instead I opted for a brick.

Today I ordered a Shea Stadium brick from the outfield walls.

The brick wall has been there since the stadium was built but the walls were covered most of the time by the blue padding.

They say it'll take 2-4 weeks until I receive it. I was hoping for some stadium seat backs or something that I could get signed. But I think this brick will be fine. It gives me something to throw at the TV when the Mets choke in 2009 and give all the executives some contract extensions!

The Sports Cards Hobby Needs a Virtual Trade Conference

Have you ever been to a virtual trade show? They are awesome and this is something our card and memorabilia hobby need.

You can get so much information about the subject without leaving your PC. With all of the growth our hobby has seen in blogs, trading forums, and memorabilia sites - the time is now to bring it all together for a yearly showcase.

Of course this doesn't replace "The National." A virtual trade show would bring more information to more people for free!

You won't leave this show at the end of the day with a new Upper Deck card, a set completed, or an autograph baseball, but you will leave more information about what ideas card companies have for the future and make more connections in the hobby.

How would you like to attend a virtual trade show (for free) and get to hear Upper Deck and Topps talk about their products for next year. What do they plan on doing that is different? How are they going to earn our collecting dollars next year?

How would you like to hear from Tri-Star, Mounted Memories, CSA, and MAB about autograph shows they plan on having next year

How would you like to ask your questions directly to the card and memorabilia companies? Collectors would get to hear this via live webinar and get to ask all of their questions.

Wouldn't you like to win a Box of Bowman Chrome or an autograph mini helmet just for attending one of the presentations? This can all be done in a virtual trade show.

Beckett or SCD could have a presentation to discuss how they price cards or the future of card grading. Beckett could use the space to talk about the change of their web site and new magazines.

McFarlane can have a webinar on their newest products and who's going to be in the next series.

The virtual trade conference also has the ability to have a virtual lobby where you can trade information with collectors from other blogs and web sites.

The possibilities for information sharing and gathering are endless. The digital age is done with "finding" information - we've found it and now we're in a time of "connecting."

How does this work?
I have put these together for my work - they are a lot of fun (and work) and you make some great connections. If you are a collector, lets start making some noise about having one of these. If you are a card or memorabilia company then lets get to work. For some examples, check out Unisfair and Design Reactor, and talk to people who have "attended" virtual trade shows.

I know, this blog entry wasn't about a certain card or autograph I just picked up... I'm guilty of being in a marketing mood today and I think our hobby can really grow and get more connected with something like this.

Chris Olds Moves to Beckett Media

Beckett's tapped an outsider to join their media operations. I noticed this message on the Sports Stuff blog with the Orlando Sentinel newspaper:
This is the final Sports Stuff entry for Chris Olds as he is joining the staff at Beckett Media, publishers of Beckett Sports Card Monthly, Beckett Baseball and several other hobby magazines.

I don't know what Chris' role will be with the Dallas-based Beckett team. From my perspective, it seems Chris' reception in the blogosphere isn't very warm. I remember reading quite a few back-and-forth comment exchanges about who posted stories first and who was reading the other person's blog for information.

Maybe Eric from the Beckett blog will stop by and give us some information.

Jim Thome Finally Has His Hall of Fame Moment

Jim Thome's 7th inning home run in Tuesday's one-game playoff should be the hit that takes him to Cooperstown.

Thome's home run numbers are amazing. Only 13 other players have hit more home runs than him. He's was a key player in the Indians' 1990s playoff teams and with one swing he put the Chicago White Sox into the playoffs on Tuesday.

Thome has never been indicated in any PED/Steroid discussion, never been accused of being a bad teammate, and has always seem to play with such an enthusiasm for the game.

I think Jim Thome needed to capture a moment to push his HOF credentials over the top, and yesterday he delivered.

An L World Series? Cubs vs. White Sox

For the first time in 102 years, both Chicago teams are in the baseball playoffs. The Cubs and White Sox begin their playoff drives this week.

Could this be the first time we have an L World Series?

Pete Rose 1964 2nd Year Card

Finally! I've been trying to get a deal on this card for a long time and I received it yesterday! It is such a cool feeling to open the mail package for a card you've been trying to get for so long.

I've been to several card shows during the past year or so where this card has been priced around $250-$300 with round corners and off-center. That's way to much for this card. Then last weekend I won an eBay auction that was below what I was willing to pay for it.

I like the Pete Rose 1964 card because it's the first card that has him on the entire card. His 1963 rookie card is shared with three other rookies.

What cards have you recently received that were tough for you to get?